tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7132206171945839649.post2633270556065708178..comments2024-02-13T11:11:28.246+00:00Comments on Bishop Alan’s Blog: Mahler Nights: Excellence and EqualityBishop Alan Wilsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13879516755776951638noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7132206171945839649.post-50797185897019847972011-03-12T00:25:33.397+00:002011-03-12T00:25:33.397+00:00Hi, I am from Australia.
Please find some referen...Hi, I am from Australia.<br /><br />Please find some references by and about a unique Artist who has pointed out that Art is always coincident with the culture in which it appears. <br />And that Sacred Art can only be generated within the context of a comprehensively lived Sacred Culture. <br />And even properly shown, performed/staged, and most importantly thus understood within the setting of a Sacred Culture and Space.<br /><br />www.aboutadidam.org/readings/art_is_love/index.html <br /><br />http://global.adidam.org/books/transcendental-realism.html<br /><br />www.adidaupclose.org/FAQs/postmodernism2.html <br /><br />www.dabase.org/restsacr.htm <br /><br />The corollary of course that there is no sacred culture in the Westernized world of 2011. Such has also been the case for the two or three centuries now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7132206171945839649.post-29517735168151932722011-03-02T09:03:18.035+00:002011-03-02T09:03:18.035+00:00This is a really interesting post - and the commen...This is a really interesting post - and the comments are also very helpful. Fergus is surely right about the democratic enterprise of shared adventurers, and this is a profound challenge to the hierarchical models of leadership we practice, and which, I suspect, most of our "recruits" are perhaps still looking for. But the recruits can be "players" if they are given the confidence not to see themselves as "out of tune". I like the idea of the "band of players", with myself/Vicar/leader part of that band being as much an enabling part of that band as the other members.the Joghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09563781001202374826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7132206171945839649.post-57809815803095632322011-02-28T21:16:56.823+00:002011-02-28T21:16:56.823+00:00sjh, thanks for your input. I think your two possi...sjh, thanks for your input. I think your two possible definitions of "tradition" lead toradically different conclusions — (1) produces theology that is a reflection on life in the real world, on the basis of full engagement. (2) produces Pharisaism — the religion that is out there on a cloud as an abstract (disembodied) reality over and above human beings.<br /><br />I am sure the job of the vicar is to be part of a joint enterprise, not the do it all/ know it all figure.<br /><br />Thanks for making these vitl connections.Bishop Alan Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13879516755776951638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7132206171945839649.post-7043241477324932502011-02-28T12:23:35.735+00:002011-02-28T12:23:35.735+00:00It is always difficult to generalise, but my impre...It is always difficult to generalise, but my impression is that when people join the church they are not joining a joint enterprise but are told what to think and do. I think that is becoming increasingly the case too. Do we feel ourselves as part of a living tradition or must God always be located solely in the past? Is tradition something that is dynamic and changing which we can contribute to or is it something which is static and must be defended? <br />And what of the role of the 'church conductor' - the vicar? As long as the church continues to practise a vicar does it all/knows it all/ paternalistic model , and the recent changes to terms and conditions did nothing to change any of that, then there is no hope of building a joint enterprise as per an orchestra. And that is where the church needs some really fresh thinking from its leaders and a willingness to take a few risks.sjhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7132206171945839649.post-55809390385805417982011-02-26T17:37:30.065+00:002011-02-26T17:37:30.065+00:00Sam, thanks for lifting this whole discussion a no...Sam, thanks for lifting this whole discussion a notch. I can see submitting to a larger vision as a real essential in the most open, joyful and apostolic communities I know.<br /> Your last two paras are really helpful. "We don't know what we're doing any more and have been rumbled" is terrifyingly possible in many places.<br /><br />Ray, thanks very much for picking up the thread. Locating the conductor in the whole as its servant and enabler rather than above it is coming to seem to me absolutely essential to being the kind of community Jesus had in mind. This creates a common ground of shared excellence, rather than mediocrity. We do need chairs, but perhaps the key thing is that they fill that space in a way that's Christian, founded on equality, not elitist, founded on paternalism (Thus Jesus saying You have only one father and you are all brothers and sisters.)Bishop Alan Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13879516755776951638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7132206171945839649.post-29044244603854695632011-02-26T17:08:48.275+00:002011-02-26T17:08:48.275+00:00An interesting follow-on from the first one.
I par...An interesting follow-on from the first one.<br />I particularly like the Fergus McWilliam view that the leader/conductor is a part of the final product rather than - the one with the answers - it made me re-think my assertation that "we" the church are waiting for our leader(s).<br />The difference perhaps, is that while in a great orchestra, all participants start from a common ground of shared excellence, in the church, the norm is that there is a great disparity of knowledge, training, theology, practical Christianity which leads, some, at least, to need someone to "chair" the life of the church. As a very new Christian I am still feeling my way and need all the help I can get.Ray Barneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09209429097744326143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7132206171945839649.post-8025484246514821762011-02-26T13:40:52.568+00:002011-02-26T13:40:52.568+00:00"Levels of virtuousity are climbing all the t..."Levels of virtuousity are climbing all the time, but could, unbridled, lead to a band of soloists playing ego games. People have to want to join the band enough to transcend pure ego, for which you need a capacity that has to be acquired, without losing their personalities."<br /><br />In other words, the successful orchestras recruit people who can see the beauty in submitting to a larger vision, something beyond themselves, and it is the authority of that vision, rather than the authority of any individual, that binds them together to produce something marvellously beyond the sum of their parts.<br /><br />The trouble with our church is that not enough people believe in that larger vision. Ironic really, given what it says on the tin.<br /><br />And at root, this is a theological problem. We no longer know what we are doing. Outsiders have rumbled that most are simply concerned with keeping the existing show on the road, and there is no flavour of transcendence and ego-submission about what we do. (A caricature, but sufficiently accurate.)<br /><br />Our theology no longer carries an intrinsic authority. On gloomy days I wonder if it ever can again. And a very great deal goes wrong in our whole society as a result - "With you is my contention O Priest!" - see in context in Hosea 4.Sam Charles Nortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04088870675715850624noreply@blogger.com